Muhammad’s marriage to Aisha (RA) is a valid argument against islam.

1. Mohammed pbuh was married with a 40 yo widow women when he was just 25 years old, He didnt take any other wives as long as she was alive. If he was a pedophile then why would he?

   He married Aisha because abu bakkar wanted family relationship with mohammed pbuh before either of them dies

   another thing to remind you that, Aisha was child less in her whole life cuz she was still a chile, mohammed pbuh used to play race on desert with her in early morning when no one was watching. Mohammed pbuh died in her lap when she was 18 and she didnt take any husband after that.

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3. I guess you should blame all people and all kingdoms in history before 1950 too since marrying at young age was considered allowed all over the ages

4. * 1, where do we get the basis to say something is definitively immoral in the first place? There’s a lot of ambiguity to the actual story of Aisha RA but let’s say the most vociferous enemies of Islam were right and she was 5 and hadn’t even hit puberty. Obviously that’s something that we all would *feel* is wrong but how do we *know* it would be wrong? Feelings about morality change from person to person, time to time and culture to culture. The Aztecs, Celts, and Norse felt like human sacrifice was perfectly fine. 19th century Europe, in the main, didn’t feel that there was anything particularly wrong with colonialism. Someone can feel that there’s nothing wrong with carrying out a terror attack or an armed robbery. So obviously, our feelings can’t be our primary guide when it comes to determining what’s ethical.

   * 2, there’s a lot more variance to the Aisha RA story than you’ll hear from people like Apostate Prophet or David Wood and more than you see in that hadith you quoted. There are basically 3 positions on the age of Aisha RA that all have textual support. 9 is the traditional position, accepted by pretty much all of the classical scholars and stated outright in some hadiths. There’s an argument for 14 based on her presence at the Battle of Badr, which nobody under that age was allowed at. And there are strong hadiths which say she was 18. And to circle back to 9, it has to be made clear that she was post-pubescent. The traditional argument for 9 isn’t an argument that 9 should be the Islamic “age of consent”, afaik we don’t really have that concept in Islamic law. The age at which a marriage can be consummated in Islam is puberty. So when we say that Muhammad SAW married a 9 year old, we’re not saying that we think every, or even any, 9 year old in today’s day should be married off and have that marriage consummated, it’s an argument that girls reached puberty faster back then. Which has textual support, we can find early scholars saying that girls coming of age at 9 wasn’t uncommon in Yemen in the period immediately after the Prophet SAW.

   * 3, giant swathes of the modern West are pedophilic according to the standards used by many American critics of Islam but somehow that isn’t a moral issue in the same way that the age of Aisha RA at consummation is. The modern West has not come to a definitive answer on the legal age of marriageability or sexual activity. Just look at the range of age of consent laws by country in the West. Why are people scandalized about Muhammad SAW and Aisha RA when Spain’s age of consent is 12 and a majority in France wants to abolish age of consent entirely? Could there be cultural and political factors at work behind that selective outrage?

   * 4, when we in the Anglosphere, especially America, talk about age in the context of sex and marriage, most us conflate several distinct ideas that aren’t synonymous with each other and which all have problems. There’s literal age, the argument that 18 or some other age is the only valid “age of consent” for example. But if we took that seriously, we’d have to say that sex with a fully physically and mentally developed woman of 17 is morally worse than sex with a 19 year old woman who has some condition which makes her look like a toddler. Then there’s the modern Western framing of consent, where whatever any two adults consent to do with each other is moral, which implies that someone can ethically have sex once they can fully understand the implications of the act. This “consent is everything” idea is actually an idea more naturally revolting than sex with a 9 year old if you take it to its logical conclusion. Is sex with a dead body wrong? What about if the dead person said you could do it before they died? Is consensual murder moral? Consensual nonconsent? People can consent to all kinds of horrific things they shouldn’t consent to, so it shouldn’t be our main standard for sexual ethics. And in the context of consummating a marriage, what about stupid but generally functional people? They’re not going to be able to understand the ramifications of sex the way someone with an IQ of 150 is, so does their consent count for less? What’s actually meant by understanding the implications of sex in other words, how much understanding exactly is enough? Then we have mental maturity, which falls apart the minute you try to make it into an actual standard rather than a truism. The human brain doesn’t finish its development until 25-30 so shouldn’t that be the average age at which sexual intercourse becomes allowable if mental maturity is so important? Also, emotional maturity and the ability to navigate relationships with the opposite sex are disconnected from age to a large extent. It’s not uncommon to meet a 50 year old who’s more immature than a 20 year old in this regard.

   * 5, even granting that mental maturity should be the main factor that determines age of marriageability, it’s an objective fact that people matured much quicker mentally in the premodern era. The idea of teenage years didn’t exist until *very* recently historically speaking. Before that life was harsh enough that as soon as you could physically fight, till a field, learn a trade, or get married, you were expected to do that. Which of course would have forced people to mentally mature more quickly.

   * 6, a lot of these ideas you’re judging Islam according to just didn’t exist until modern Western consumer society and gender/sexual norms came along, which should make you question if they’re legitimately objective ethical principles or if they’re biases we’ve developed because of cultural, social, and economic factors. While consent is an old concept that exists in Islamic law as well as Western law codes, this idea of “whatever two consenting adults decide to do in their privacy of their own bedroom goes” is new and the obsessive focus on consent as the cornerstone of all sexual ethics is new. The idea that 18 should be the age at which sexual activity with people older than 18 becomes acceptable is new, even in America. Many states to this day have an age of consent of 16 and before the 20th century it was the norm for people to get married in their teens in the US. The idea that someone needs to be totally emotionally mature before they get into a “relationship” is new. What isn’t new is the idea that puberty should be the age that people start to have legal sexual activity, and if we look at the history of marriage ages in Western Europe, this is more or less what we find. There were times and places in which the average marriage age was as high as the early 20s but it wasn’t some oddity for women to marry at 13-15 *on average*, which means some were marrying at lower ages than that. If you’re in a society that needs all hands on deck asap then puberty is a perfectly rational standard and as I said above, there’s no doubt that Aisha RA had hit puberty, whatever her age was.

5. Ive seen many people use this argument before the problem with it is that its projecting our cultural norms in the 21st century back to 1400’s Arabia.

   The age of marriage is something that has no normative time or age and cultures and ethnicities across the times have all had different ages considered to be appropriate for marriage.

   Just 500 years ago Shakespeare wrote Romeo and Juliet, in which Romeo and Juliet were aged 14 and 15 years old and now a day we project this story onto 18 and 17 year olds and picture that as a young couple, but in that age 14 and 15 was the norm for a couple as such.

   In that age, people matured faster, once you biologically mature, you are treated like a man and a woman. Just 100 years ago in America young ladies were getting married regularly at the ages of 12-14. Your own grandparents married at this age ffs and they have great relationships.

   Keeping these facts in mind, who’re you to say Aisha was unfortunate when she never had a single probem with the relationshp? The Prophet isnt in the wrong either. This was fcking normal. Also its not the same as a 6yo in 2022, she was more emotionally mature at that age than a teenager is now. In that era you age faster because you had to take on extreme responsibilities. So aisha’s age at that time, would be the emotional and mental age equivelent to a 16/17yo in our time.

   As for the Prophet having intercourse with her, she was past the age of puberty and probably had desires of her own at that point. She was just as emotionally mature as a woman in her early 20s and late teens by then.

   Another fact to consider is that haters of the Prophet pbuh at that time tried to find everything they possibly could to smear him but they did not find a problem with his marriage at all. Even from his worst enemies, not even a single comment on his relationship, because this was the norm. Aisha herself is a happy wife and wasnt disturbed so why are you lmao?

   If you are even a bit open minded and look at historical evidence there shouldnt be a problem with this.

   As for the age to marry in islam, it is permisible to marry once a child reaches an age of emotional maturity (which Aisha already had) or when they are past puberty and they biologically mature.

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7. If he was a pedophile why didn’t he marry multiple 9 year olds? And not divorced women who where older than him?

   Why did NO ONE else have an issue when he married? There where people who killed and ridiculed Muslims at that time surely they would have used this argument it’s funny how this argument came about only 100 years ago in line with feminism

   You are using your own modern liberal worldview and applying it to a time before when 100 years ago the age of consent in England was 12 years old and it grew in proportion to when people finished education

8. Its funny how you say its against islam when its nowhere in the Quran that you have to marry a 9 years old

9. Bro my grandma got married at 13 so trust me 1400 years ago it was 5 years old who were getting married+The prophet PBUH had the concent of the familly of Aisha and of Aisha so please stop your culture say its wrong their culture say its normal

10. Her age at marriage has been painstakingly and thoroughly been established as late teens.
    As you said Mohammed, a model for Muslims , marrying a prepubescent child makes no sense. Even assuming cultural and time differences, a child is a child. Any Muslim who defends this myth of Aisha being a child at marriage needs their head examined.
    Hadeeth have been refuted ad nauseam ,especially, individually depending on the narrator. They are cultural wisdom at best and heresy at worst .
    If you want to not ‘ believe ‘ the list of reasons she couldn’t be 7 or 9 then this post is a hate rant and not a valid question.

11. You are comparing todays culture to the culture of Arabia 1450 years ago, lol …

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13. >Before beginning I’ll show some accepted hadiths that show that Aisha was a child when married to Muhammed.

    Thanks, but I don’t need it.

    >These hadiths are also Sahih with the proper chain of narrators and is accepted by almost all scholars.

    Don’t worry, anyone, that doesn’t accept these ahadeeth is peobably not a scholar, or a “proggressive Muslim”.

    >You are using modern day standard to judge this marriage/At the time of prophet this was perfectly normal

    >This argument becomes completely invalid when you remember Muhammad is supposed to be the perfect person, someone that is to be only loved lesser than god himself.

    The argument is very much valid, as it does not assume that what the prophet (SAW) did was wrong in any sense, and it wasn’t wrong, as the age of maturity back then, and even in today’s world, is very much subjective. The people of ancient Arabia didn’t have much to worry or think about in life, they didn’t have to worry about education, because there wasn’t much to teach, they didn’t have to worry about travel, because there weren’t many places to go or visit, they didn’t have to worry about social connections, because the majority of people knew each-other in one way or another, etc etc, most people were prepared to live their lives by a very young age, so obviously, most of them married young, not just the women, but the men too. And since you brought it up, ‘ā’isha’s (rA) age has nothing to do with the prophet’s (SAW) decision to marry her, as his first marriage happened when he was 25 years old, and you know who he was married to? Khadījah (rA), who was *40 years old* at the time, and was a wealthy business-woman too.

    >She hit puberty before he had sex with her

    >Her hitting puberty doesn’t suddenly make her a mentally mature person…

    I already explained this in the previous point, moving on.

    >Aisha and her father approved of the marriage

    This means absolutely nothing. Because 1. Children cannot consent…

    I’ll chalk-up the 2nd point for obvious reasons, but anyways, this isn’t an argument, that’s a flat, blanket statement to put on your previous argument, so unless you wanna answer this with proper and valid objective arguments (which have to apply for both modern and ancient times), don’t come at me with the “children can’t consent” non-sense.

14. > Conclusion

    So, there was an event which had been polished by folklore study books namedly hadith, with adjective of “Saheeh”, then these events had been enforced by khalif and bigwigs, but it had no notes related to this marriage (!) committed by the Sahaba.

    The Sahaba which copied the Prophet to the level of how to tie shoelaces?

    A Prophet is a man picked by God and under very strict contract of not adding or removing anything to God’s revelation, if this marriage were to occur then it has to have a place in the Book.

    People who believe the Book is inspired has to push these ideals because God doesn’t allow these types of nonsense to occur.

    As historic note, the marriage with underage was a thing of Roman and Persian legal framework and entered into legal codex after Abbasid throne had used these books to ironclad their place…. plus they banned women from getting a share from the inheritance, for very reasonable reasons which may lead them to lose the throne.

    TL:DR; Humans can overrule their logic, this is why God had sent a Book and made it very clean cut.

15. Modern standards are invalid because the prophet violated them. The only correct standards are the ones ordained by God.

16. I didn’t even bother to read the post other than the title but I just wanna say that:

    Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) ‘s marriage to Aisha (RA) has only become an issue in the 21st century. You are not the first group of people in the past 1400 years to debunk or criticize Islam as big brained free thinkers. Except you’re the first to use his marriage as an argument against Islam and the prophet. In fact when the Prophet (PBUH) was alive he was a rebel and enemy to society, and his enemies at the time would go to any length to criticize or destroy him, and could defame him using his marriage to Aisha. But obviously this did not happen.

    This is the case in the 21st century because society has made it sound that child marriage should not be allowed. And there is nothing wrong with that. Islam was made for all times and societies. What’s wrong is to criticize Islam for allowing it at a time where society deemed it allowed and even common.

    The ‘pedophile’ or ‘child bride’ labelling is also to label the muslim man and the prophet as an oppressive person with a marriage of power imbalance. If you did any research on the life of Aisha (RA) you’d know that she was one of the most confident woman in that time, and extensively knowledgeable on Islam and also medicine. She would stand and give lectures in the streets of Makkah. She is considered the Mother of the believers. If there was any power imbalance in that marriage, it was Aisha having the power. Constantly challenging and productively arguing with the prophet and narrating the most hadiths collected.

    Skimming your post again I see you mentioning morality and the “perfect person”, which wraps back to my initial points that you’re judging an act that no enemy of the prophet judged him for, for the last 1400 years and claiming its wrong or immoral by the standards held 1400 years later. You are following the morality dictated by today’s society and judging a 1400 year old society and are most likely living in country that gave rights to woman much later than Islam did.

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